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	<title>Comments on: The Schism Around Voice: Multicasting vs. Broadcasting</title>
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	<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2007/03/26/the-schism-around-voice-multicasting-vs-broadcasting/</link>
	<description>Socio-Economical Articles about the Second Life® world</description>
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		<title>By: Why I don&#8217;t use voice in SL. &#171; Dale Innis&#8217;s Weblog</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2007/03/26/the-schism-around-voice-multicasting-vs-broadcasting/comment-page-1/#comment-22888</link>
		<dc:creator>Why I don&#8217;t use voice in SL. &#171; Dale Innis&#8217;s Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 21:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/article147visual1layout1.html#comment-22888</guid>
		<description>[...] http://gwynethllewelyn.net/article147visual1layout1.html [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://gwynethllewelyn.net/article147visual1layout1.html" rel="nofollow">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/article147visual1layout1.html</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Are Virtual World Conferences a Cost-Effective Eco-Alternative? &#171; Earth2Tech</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2007/03/26/the-schism-around-voice-multicasting-vs-broadcasting/comment-page-1/#comment-9062</link>
		<dc:creator>Are Virtual World Conferences a Cost-Effective Eco-Alternative? &#171; Earth2Tech</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 05:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/article147visual1layout1.html#comment-9062</guid>
		<description>[...] it possible to have several (often complementary) archivable conversations going at once &#8212; a powerful phenomenon that SL entrepreneur Gwynneth Llewellyn has written about persuasively. At the end of the meeting, you have an illustrated transcript that&#8217;s a handy resource for [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] it possible to have several (often complementary) archivable conversations going at once &#8212; a powerful phenomenon that SL entrepreneur Gwynneth Llewellyn has written about persuasively. At the end of the meeting, you have an illustrated transcript that&#8217;s a handy resource for [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Networked_Performance &#8212; The Schism Around Voice:</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2007/03/26/the-schism-around-voice-multicasting-vs-broadcasting/comment-page-1/#comment-5868</link>
		<dc:creator>Networked_Performance &#8212; The Schism Around Voice:</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/article147visual1layout1.html#comment-5868</guid>
		<description>[...] environments, where all are readers and authors at the same time.&#8221; Continue reading The Schism Around Voice: Multicasting vs. Broadcasting by Gwyneth Llewelyn.    Mar 30, 17:58 Trackback [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] environments, where all are readers and authors at the same time.&#8221; Continue reading The Schism Around Voice: Multicasting vs. Broadcasting by Gwyneth Llewelyn.    Mar 30, 17:58 Trackback [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Atalar Longstaff</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2007/03/26/the-schism-around-voice-multicasting-vs-broadcasting/comment-page-1/#comment-5410</link>
		<dc:creator>Atalar Longstaff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 04:04:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/article147visual1layout1.html#comment-5410</guid>
		<description>This is an extremely detailed article.  I greatly enjoyed reading it.  I own a conferencing and collaboration company and am always interested in reading articles like this.  I think that LL will have difficulty incorporating it, but you never know.

Reno Provine
http://www.ganconference.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an extremely detailed article.  I greatly enjoyed reading it.  I own a conferencing and collaboration company and am always interested in reading articles like this.  I think that LL will have difficulty incorporating it, but you never know.</p>
<p>Reno Provine<br />
<a href="http://www.ganconference.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.ganconference.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Voice in SL: Going Nowhere Fast &#171; Notes from the Beach (2.0)</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2007/03/26/the-schism-around-voice-multicasting-vs-broadcasting/comment-page-1/#comment-5094</link>
		<dc:creator>Voice in SL: Going Nowhere Fast &#171; Notes from the Beach (2.0)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/article147visual1layout1.html#comment-5094</guid>
		<description>[...] in SL: Going Nowhere&#160;Fast  In her (extremely long but very well argued) essayThe Schism Around Voice: Multicasting vs. Broadcasting, the Second Life character known as Gwyneth Lllewelyn strongly supports the introduction of voice [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in SL: Going Nowhere&nbsp;Fast  In her (extremely long but very well argued) essayThe Schism Around Voice: Multicasting vs. Broadcasting, the Second Life character known as Gwyneth Lllewelyn strongly supports the introduction of voice [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Abbey</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2007/03/26/the-schism-around-voice-multicasting-vs-broadcasting/comment-page-1/#comment-4253</link>
		<dc:creator>Abbey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 22:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/article147visual1layout1.html#comment-4253</guid>
		<description>I am not really concerned about voice on SL from a sociological point of view. And I doubt the drastic changes you forsee will happen at all actually. 
I chatted on Yahoo! Messenger for about 6 years. Started long before they made voice an option on there. And where as it was a fun tool to begin with, and people started using it for playing music in the chatrooms and talking with eachother in rooms as well, it slowly kind of faded away as a commonly used feature. 
The reason for this, of course, is exactly what you mentioned in your blog here. Voice is limited as a social interaction. Only one person can speak at a time. One speaks, the rest listens. It is like trying to have a conversation using walkie talkies. You cannot have the same type of group &quot;banter&quot; where everyone can voice an oppinion and answer eachother criss crossing the chat. The people I know who tried voice in the beta client, says it turns into chaos as soon as more people speaks. It works fine as a conference tool, but as group communication it&#039;s just noise. 
This will become very evident when it becomes a feature on SL and people will gradually stop using it much. 
I worry more about it as an annoyance. You can easily disregard chatters, who type stupid things, by just overlooking what they type. You filter it out when you read the chat. 
It is more difficult to diregard the noise of many people speaking in a club where you want to chat and listen to the music. Or some guy trying to chat you up in his native tongue etc. I remember on Yahoo when arab chatters would come in and try voicing with you in their own language or in incomprehensable english. Voice turned into a nuisance and something you muted more often than not.

I think the average SL&#039;er will find that the voice feature will confuse things more than it will benefit them. And they will return to text chat quite fast, as chatters did on Yahoo.

If LL are in any way similar to Yahoo in the way they &quot;upgrade&quot; the interaction features, the next thing will be webcams on Second Life. I see it coming and trust me, that will change the face of everything. Because by then you will be pestered by other SL users over and over again with &quot;Can I see your cam?&quot;. This fundementally undermined the quality of chat on yahoo and will do the same for SL.

The horror.. the horror...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not really concerned about voice on SL from a sociological point of view. And I doubt the drastic changes you forsee will happen at all actually.<br />
I chatted on Yahoo! Messenger for about 6 years. Started long before they made voice an option on there. And where as it was a fun tool to begin with, and people started using it for playing music in the chatrooms and talking with eachother in rooms as well, it slowly kind of faded away as a commonly used feature.<br />
The reason for this, of course, is exactly what you mentioned in your blog here. Voice is limited as a social interaction. Only one person can speak at a time. One speaks, the rest listens. It is like trying to have a conversation using walkie talkies. You cannot have the same type of group &#8220;banter&#8221; where everyone can voice an oppinion and answer eachother criss crossing the chat. The people I know who tried voice in the beta client, says it turns into chaos as soon as more people speaks. It works fine as a conference tool, but as group communication it&#8217;s just noise.<br />
This will become very evident when it becomes a feature on SL and people will gradually stop using it much.<br />
I worry more about it as an annoyance. You can easily disregard chatters, who type stupid things, by just overlooking what they type. You filter it out when you read the chat.<br />
It is more difficult to diregard the noise of many people speaking in a club where you want to chat and listen to the music. Or some guy trying to chat you up in his native tongue etc. I remember on Yahoo when arab chatters would come in and try voicing with you in their own language or in incomprehensable english. Voice turned into a nuisance and something you muted more often than not.</p>
<p>I think the average SL&#8217;er will find that the voice feature will confuse things more than it will benefit them. And they will return to text chat quite fast, as chatters did on Yahoo.</p>
<p>If LL are in any way similar to Yahoo in the way they &#8220;upgrade&#8221; the interaction features, the next thing will be webcams on Second Life. I see it coming and trust me, that will change the face of everything. Because by then you will be pestered by other SL users over and over again with &#8220;Can I see your cam?&#8221;. This fundementally undermined the quality of chat on yahoo and will do the same for SL.</p>
<p>The horror.. the horror&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Extropia DaSilva</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2007/03/26/the-schism-around-voice-multicasting-vs-broadcasting/comment-page-1/#comment-4197</link>
		<dc:creator>Extropia DaSilva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 11:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/article147visual1layout1.html#comment-4197</guid>
		<description>If I go down to the sandbox areas and ask someone who is working on something to explain what they are doing, that person has to stop working in order to answer my question because you can either type a reply or work the &#039;build&#039; tools. You cannot do both at once.

But if they can TELL me what they are doing, their hands are free to continue working and I am not interrupting them with my curiosity. Furthermore, won&#039;t the more effective combination of using the build tools and explaining their functionality while doing so ( as opposed to doing, stopping to explain, doing...) help create better &#039;universities&#039; than currently exist?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I go down to the sandbox areas and ask someone who is working on something to explain what they are doing, that person has to stop working in order to answer my question because you can either type a reply or work the &#8216;build&#8217; tools. You cannot do both at once.</p>
<p>But if they can TELL me what they are doing, their hands are free to continue working and I am not interrupting them with my curiosity. Furthermore, won&#8217;t the more effective combination of using the build tools and explaining their functionality while doing so ( as opposed to doing, stopping to explain, doing&#8230;) help create better &#8216;universities&#8217; than currently exist?</p>
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		<title>By: Ordinal Malaprop</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2007/03/26/the-schism-around-voice-multicasting-vs-broadcasting/comment-page-1/#comment-4047</link>
		<dc:creator>Ordinal Malaprop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2007 19:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/article147visual1layout1.html#comment-4047</guid>
		<description>The thing is, though, that these &quot;wrong&quot; people are not going to be any influence on actual SL users, who are not in general part of a company. They will get home and think &quot;right, finally I have some time of my own, I think I&#039;ll go onto SL, do I want people bothering me with phone calls like they have been all day? Hell no! I run my own time now! And also I have to deal with the cat jumping on me and kid X asking me to tell kid Y to stop doing Z, which wouldn&#039;t fit in with my av&#039;s role as an ice-cool dungeon mistress.&quot; I don&#039;t think this is an unusual situation, and I don&#039;t think that the majority of people will think that &quot;voice is supreme&quot; under all circumstances.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing is, though, that these &#8220;wrong&#8221; people are not going to be any influence on actual SL users, who are not in general part of a company. They will get home and think &#8220;right, finally I have some time of my own, I think I&#8217;ll go onto SL, do I want people bothering me with phone calls like they have been all day? Hell no! I run my own time now! And also I have to deal with the cat jumping on me and kid X asking me to tell kid Y to stop doing Z, which wouldn&#8217;t fit in with my av&#8217;s role as an ice-cool dungeon mistress.&#8221; I don&#8217;t think this is an unusual situation, and I don&#8217;t think that the majority of people will think that &#8220;voice is supreme&#8221; under all circumstances.</p>
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		<title>By: Gwyneth Llewelyn</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2007/03/26/the-schism-around-voice-multicasting-vs-broadcasting/comment-page-1/#comment-4045</link>
		<dc:creator>Gwyneth Llewelyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2007 17:11:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/article147visual1layout1.html#comment-4045</guid>
		<description>Just a short comment to second all you&#039;ve said, Ordinal :) Pity, however, that it&#039;s the &quot;wrong&quot; people who impose corporate policy in the business environment — but this is very unlikely to change soon!

Ashcroft, as I hope you understand, I&#039;m on &quot;your side&quot; in the sense that your arguments are the ones that are rational, logical, and correct. Nevertheless, the European Union, Japan or Korea are plagued with more mobile phones than inhabitants — and I&#039;m pretty sure that while the mobile operators&#039; profits come from SMS, the use given to all those phones is still for voice calls. This is a mentality very hard to change — after all, after 130 years using telephones, we were all &quot;brainwashed&quot; that the best way to communicate is to do it face-to-face, and the second best one is by using a voice call. It&#039;ll be hard to prove, through rational arguments, that this is, in fact, simply not true. The ones making the &lt;i&gt;decisions&lt;/i&gt; about voice will not listen (pun intended) by rational and logical argumentation. You don&#039;t find people in decision areas that will take those arguments and go &quot;aaah, yes, you&#039;re so right, let&#039;s get rid of phones&quot;. Instead, the first thing a company does is to get a phone number; only afterwards they &lt;i&gt;might&lt;/i&gt; get an email address, just because it is fashionable to do so.

At my home, I have a telephone just because recently I got an ADSL line (I used a cable connection before). Nobody knows the phone number except my parents; I have no use for the phone, and can&#039;t even remember the phone number. But then again, I&#039;m an odd one, and don&#039;t register on the statistics :) Imagine my difficulty of opening a bank account a few years ago without giving a phone number. Managers were outraged and shocked; I sometimes gave my parent&#039;s phone number instead just to be able to open the account...

No, the notion that &quot;voice is supreme&quot; is too ingrained into our society, and &quot;mass voice communications&quot; is still in the minds of people as being an achievement of the 20th century. People would be surprised to find out that &quot;voice traffic&quot; over the world-wide networks these days pales in comparison to data communications in the 21st century. Of course, much of that traffic is already VoIP...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a short comment to second all you&#8217;ve said, Ordinal <img src='http://gwynethllewelyn.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Pity, however, that it&#8217;s the &#8220;wrong&#8221; people who impose corporate policy in the business environment — but this is very unlikely to change soon!</p>
<p>Ashcroft, as I hope you understand, I&#8217;m on &#8220;your side&#8221; in the sense that your arguments are the ones that are rational, logical, and correct. Nevertheless, the European Union, Japan or Korea are plagued with more mobile phones than inhabitants — and I&#8217;m pretty sure that while the mobile operators&#8217; profits come from SMS, the use given to all those phones is still for voice calls. This is a mentality very hard to change — after all, after 130 years using telephones, we were all &#8220;brainwashed&#8221; that the best way to communicate is to do it face-to-face, and the second best one is by using a voice call. It&#8217;ll be hard to prove, through rational arguments, that this is, in fact, simply not true. The ones making the <i>decisions</i> about voice will not listen (pun intended) by rational and logical argumentation. You don&#8217;t find people in decision areas that will take those arguments and go &#8220;aaah, yes, you&#8217;re so right, let&#8217;s get rid of phones&#8221;. Instead, the first thing a company does is to get a phone number; only afterwards they <i>might</i> get an email address, just because it is fashionable to do so.</p>
<p>At my home, I have a telephone just because recently I got an ADSL line (I used a cable connection before). Nobody knows the phone number except my parents; I have no use for the phone, and can&#8217;t even remember the phone number. But then again, I&#8217;m an odd one, and don&#8217;t register on the statistics <img src='http://gwynethllewelyn.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Imagine my difficulty of opening a bank account a few years ago without giving a phone number. Managers were outraged and shocked; I sometimes gave my parent&#8217;s phone number instead just to be able to open the account&#8230;</p>
<p>No, the notion that &#8220;voice is supreme&#8221; is too ingrained into our society, and &#8220;mass voice communications&#8221; is still in the minds of people as being an achievement of the 20th century. People would be surprised to find out that &#8220;voice traffic&#8221; over the world-wide networks these days pales in comparison to data communications in the 21st century. Of course, much of that traffic is already VoIP&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ordinal Malaprop</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2007/03/26/the-schism-around-voice-multicasting-vs-broadcasting/comment-page-1/#comment-4044</link>
		<dc:creator>Ordinal Malaprop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2007 16:22:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/article147visual1layout1.html#comment-4044</guid>
		<description>Gwyn: good to see that you clearly understand what I&#039;m talking about when it comes to practical use of voice :) I&#039;m just not sure that you and I are such aberrations.

The sort of people in my experience who insist on using voice, and only voice, in a business context are:

- Human Resources, who want to be able to judge your mood, and also don&#039;t want to make any recordable promises (sorry, I have a bad opinion of HR based on past experience);
- Sales people, who want to be able to bully you verbally into an immediate decision rather than you being able to review their offers at your leisure;
- Incompetent middle-managers, who don&#039;t actually have an opinion or anything to say and can&#039;t understand what it is that other people are trying to tell them, so need to have lengthy voice conversations to (a) &quot;prove&quot; that they&#039;re involved and (b) have people pander to their stupidity and explain, at length, over and over again, what is going on.

I&#039;ve talked about this outside of any sort of internet context with a lot of people and I find that those who don&#039;t fall into those categories are quite aware of the issues of voice (and face-to-face meetings) across all demographics. The admin staff say &quot;don&#039;t waste my time in meetings, send me an email with what you want done, I&#039;m busy&quot;. The members of the board say &quot;don&#039;t waste my time with phone calls, summarise the issue into proper proposals and reports, I&#039;m busy&quot;. In my earlier days I was explicitly advised by the good managers that I had to always request a follow-up email after every conversation and, more importantly, not do anything until this was received. It&#039;s a common perception. People realise when voice is appropriate over text, for discussion and &quot;brainstorming&quot; usually, but they&#039;re not wedded to it at all, and for some things they prefer to use text.

In fact, even when voice would be more efficient as a mechanism, a lot of people would prefer just to receive emails, because voice chat dominates your entire sensorium as you say, and you can&#039;t be talking to more than one person at a time. Getting a phone call while talking to someone else is the obvious example, but it&#039;s also difficult to reply to one&#039;s emails while on the phone or speaking face-to-face - I simply can&#039;t do it to my usual standard, and other people agree.

The problem is that so many companies have their internal process plan dominated by the third type of person that I mention that it&#039;s very hard to make progress. But my point is that for everyone else, as far as I can see, it&#039;s obvious that sometimes voice is convenient, and sometimes it isn&#039;t. You say that &quot;companies get scared&quot; - it&#039;s the people who are wedded to voice who get scared, who unfortunately are often the decision-makers when it comes to protocol, the majority of employees aren&#039;t bothered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gwyn: good to see that you clearly understand what I&#8217;m talking about when it comes to practical use of voice <img src='http://gwynethllewelyn.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I&#8217;m just not sure that you and I are such aberrations.</p>
<p>The sort of people in my experience who insist on using voice, and only voice, in a business context are:</p>
<p>- Human Resources, who want to be able to judge your mood, and also don&#8217;t want to make any recordable promises (sorry, I have a bad opinion of HR based on past experience);<br />
- Sales people, who want to be able to bully you verbally into an immediate decision rather than you being able to review their offers at your leisure;<br />
- Incompetent middle-managers, who don&#8217;t actually have an opinion or anything to say and can&#8217;t understand what it is that other people are trying to tell them, so need to have lengthy voice conversations to (a) &#8220;prove&#8221; that they&#8217;re involved and (b) have people pander to their stupidity and explain, at length, over and over again, what is going on.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve talked about this outside of any sort of internet context with a lot of people and I find that those who don&#8217;t fall into those categories are quite aware of the issues of voice (and face-to-face meetings) across all demographics. The admin staff say &#8220;don&#8217;t waste my time in meetings, send me an email with what you want done, I&#8217;m busy&#8221;. The members of the board say &#8220;don&#8217;t waste my time with phone calls, summarise the issue into proper proposals and reports, I&#8217;m busy&#8221;. In my earlier days I was explicitly advised by the good managers that I had to always request a follow-up email after every conversation and, more importantly, not do anything until this was received. It&#8217;s a common perception. People realise when voice is appropriate over text, for discussion and &#8220;brainstorming&#8221; usually, but they&#8217;re not wedded to it at all, and for some things they prefer to use text.</p>
<p>In fact, even when voice would be more efficient as a mechanism, a lot of people would prefer just to receive emails, because voice chat dominates your entire sensorium as you say, and you can&#8217;t be talking to more than one person at a time. Getting a phone call while talking to someone else is the obvious example, but it&#8217;s also difficult to reply to one&#8217;s emails while on the phone or speaking face-to-face &#8211; I simply can&#8217;t do it to my usual standard, and other people agree.</p>
<p>The problem is that so many companies have their internal process plan dominated by the third type of person that I mention that it&#8217;s very hard to make progress. But my point is that for everyone else, as far as I can see, it&#8217;s obvious that sometimes voice is convenient, and sometimes it isn&#8217;t. You say that &#8220;companies get scared&#8221; &#8211; it&#8217;s the people who are wedded to voice who get scared, who unfortunately are often the decision-makers when it comes to protocol, the majority of employees aren&#8217;t bothered.</p>
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