<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Stepping back from the analogue hole&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2008/10/18/stepping-back-from-the-analogue-hole/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2008/10/18/stepping-back-from-the-analogue-hole/</link>
	<description>Socio-Economical Articles about the Second Life® world</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 15:52:21 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Persig Phaeton</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2008/10/18/stepping-back-from-the-analogue-hole/comment-page-1/#comment-24544</link>
		<dc:creator>Persig Phaeton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/?p=521#comment-24544</guid>
		<description>Gwyn,
You may or may not have followed my debates with Prok on the OpenSource &quot;thugs&quot; post but if you have, you might be surprised to know that I find myself in agreement with pretty much everything you&#039;ve written here.  You clearly understand the social and technological implications of copyright protection and I think you display an objectively accurate view of the forces at work.  While I agree that enforcing some of these protections will hamper creative development I really truly believe there is room for both in this world.  Down the road I see two basic deployments emerging similar to the way some corporations choose to use Microsoft&#039;s IIS for web hosting while other choose Apache.  For those deeply concerned with protection of their IP I think your approach has merit and will most definitely be wrapped into an IIS-equivilant simulator deployment package.  Others will be interested in, say, creative or educational uses and are not as concerned with IP retention.  These individuals or organizations might choose the Apache-equivilant simlator deployment like OpenSim or RealXtend for the greater level of developmental freedom it offers.
It seems strange for me to disagree so vehemently with Prok while agreeing so much with you but I think you have taken a more balanced, sophisticated view of the issue.  To me it just seems like some people see this as a &quot;with us or against us&quot; proposition but I think both avenues are worth pursuing.  Each have their merits.
I know I&#039;ve been lumped in the with open-source &quot;thugs&quot; for my view of the technical hurdles but I&#039;ll be the first to say I rather respect what you have to say here and that your approach is worth pursuing for those who are specifically concerned with retaining their IP.  The analog hole is still a major issue, of course, but like you said (to paraphrase), there is no such thing as bullet proof security.  Implementing some security is better than implementing none at all.
Kind regards,

Persig Phaeton</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gwyn,<br />
You may or may not have followed my debates with Prok on the OpenSource &#8220;thugs&#8221; post but if you have, you might be surprised to know that I find myself in agreement with pretty much everything you&#8217;ve written here.  You clearly understand the social and technological implications of copyright protection and I think you display an objectively accurate view of the forces at work.  While I agree that enforcing some of these protections will hamper creative development I really truly believe there is room for both in this world.  Down the road I see two basic deployments emerging similar to the way some corporations choose to use Microsoft&#8217;s IIS for web hosting while other choose Apache.  For those deeply concerned with protection of their IP I think your approach has merit and will most definitely be wrapped into an IIS-equivilant simulator deployment package.  Others will be interested in, say, creative or educational uses and are not as concerned with IP retention.  These individuals or organizations might choose the Apache-equivilant simlator deployment like OpenSim or RealXtend for the greater level of developmental freedom it offers.<br />
It seems strange for me to disagree so vehemently with Prok while agreeing so much with you but I think you have taken a more balanced, sophisticated view of the issue.  To me it just seems like some people see this as a &#8220;with us or against us&#8221; proposition but I think both avenues are worth pursuing.  Each have their merits.<br />
I know I&#8217;ve been lumped in the with open-source &#8220;thugs&#8221; for my view of the technical hurdles but I&#8217;ll be the first to say I rather respect what you have to say here and that your approach is worth pursuing for those who are specifically concerned with retaining their IP.  The analog hole is still a major issue, of course, but like you said (to paraphrase), there is no such thing as bullet proof security.  Implementing some security is better than implementing none at all.<br />
Kind regards,</p>
<p>Persig Phaeton</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Aleena Yoshiro</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2008/10/18/stepping-back-from-the-analogue-hole/comment-page-1/#comment-24533</link>
		<dc:creator>Aleena Yoshiro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/?p=521#comment-24533</guid>
		<description>Imperceptable digital watermarking is a technology that has been available for almost a decade, and there are papers freely available on how to implement such an algorithm. Some of the newer algorithms are very good; in that not only can you not see the watermark, but it can survive extreme degradation in the image (due to compression, meddleing, whatever).

A possible implementation would be for the Second Life server to watermark all incoming images with the name of the owning avatar. If it sees another incoming image with an existing watermark, it can trivially flag the account as a texture thief.

For protection from Copybot, it doesn&#039;t actually upload textures when it makes copies of prims. Instead, it assigns the original UUID and texturing information to the prims of the object it is rezzing. A security enhancement on the server side would be to disallow the assigning of texture UUIDs to prims that don&#039;t exist in the avatar&#039;s inventory.

Texturing is the biggest part of making stuff in Second Life. Guarding the textures with a digital watermark makes it prohibitively difficult to duplicate and steal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Imperceptable digital watermarking is a technology that has been available for almost a decade, and there are papers freely available on how to implement such an algorithm. Some of the newer algorithms are very good; in that not only can you not see the watermark, but it can survive extreme degradation in the image (due to compression, meddleing, whatever).</p>
<p>A possible implementation would be for the Second Life server to watermark all incoming images with the name of the owning avatar. If it sees another incoming image with an existing watermark, it can trivially flag the account as a texture thief.</p>
<p>For protection from Copybot, it doesn&#8217;t actually upload textures when it makes copies of prims. Instead, it assigns the original UUID and texturing information to the prims of the object it is rezzing. A security enhancement on the server side would be to disallow the assigning of texture UUIDs to prims that don&#8217;t exist in the avatar&#8217;s inventory.</p>
<p>Texturing is the biggest part of making stuff in Second Life. Guarding the textures with a digital watermark makes it prohibitively difficult to duplicate and steal.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: v</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2008/10/18/stepping-back-from-the-analogue-hole/comment-page-1/#comment-24526</link>
		<dc:creator>v</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 11:46:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/?p=521#comment-24526</guid>
		<description>this just makes me sad.

you seem intelligent enough to understand that making something &quot;way harder to copy (not impossible&quot; just benefits the rogues. while being harder to break doesnt make it harder to spread/share; all it takes is one break thru (by someone somewhere) and it can be made available worldwide in a moments notice, nowadays. its the nature of the intertubes. some see good in it, some see evil. id say it swings both ways but its a very very good thing regardless.

Putting something online is sharing it with others. sharing something with others has the caveat those Others will do with it whatever they are moved to. its the way of information and knowledge. once knowledge is shared its up to the recipients what they do with it. one can be inspired and leap forwards on the shoulders of those before us just as much as one can seek sleazy (even damaging) ways to make a quick (perceived) profit. 

...and on the opposite end, the idea of being able to share something while retaining control over it is ... id offend someone by trying to qualify it and all the while still falling short. its not a coincidence the word &#039;release&#039; is so often used. you release something and its out there, roaming the world, with a life of its own.

these are universal dynamics at play, wherever the answer is, it is not in fighting against them but working with(in) it.

or leave it for the salmon to swim up stream. *shrugs*

:P go sony go *cringe*

all the best to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this just makes me sad.</p>
<p>you seem intelligent enough to understand that making something &#8220;way harder to copy (not impossible&#8221; just benefits the rogues. while being harder to break doesnt make it harder to spread/share; all it takes is one break thru (by someone somewhere) and it can be made available worldwide in a moments notice, nowadays. its the nature of the intertubes. some see good in it, some see evil. id say it swings both ways but its a very very good thing regardless.</p>
<p>Putting something online is sharing it with others. sharing something with others has the caveat those Others will do with it whatever they are moved to. its the way of information and knowledge. once knowledge is shared its up to the recipients what they do with it. one can be inspired and leap forwards on the shoulders of those before us just as much as one can seek sleazy (even damaging) ways to make a quick (perceived) profit. </p>
<p>&#8230;and on the opposite end, the idea of being able to share something while retaining control over it is &#8230; id offend someone by trying to qualify it and all the while still falling short. its not a coincidence the word &#8216;release&#8217; is so often used. you release something and its out there, roaming the world, with a life of its own.</p>
<p>these are universal dynamics at play, wherever the answer is, it is not in fighting against them but working with(in) it.</p>
<p>or leave it for the salmon to swim up stream. *shrugs*</p>
<p> <img src='http://gwynethllewelyn.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' />  go sony go *cringe*</p>
<p>all the best to you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SignpostMarv Martin</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2008/10/18/stepping-back-from-the-analogue-hole/comment-page-1/#comment-24516</link>
		<dc:creator>SignpostMarv Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 00:00:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/?p=521#comment-24516</guid>
		<description>Since preventing copying would prove too difficult or cumbersome (as the saying goes, &lt;q&gt;DRM only harms those who don&#039;t wish to circumvent it&lt;/q&gt;), and watermarking images would probably put content creators off- due to the flaws in the end work it&#039;d produce- the next best thing would be for content creators to be able to identify when their content has been stolen, so that the appropriate action can be taken- without the opportunity for &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.massively.com/2008/09/11/dmca-notices-in-second-life-a-practical-example/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;baseless accusations&lt;/a&gt;. This is something I&#039;ve spoken to Gwyn about previously; The ability to read the fingerprint of a given asset, and compare it against RL hard copies (or otherwise mimic RL procedures of copyright dispute).

Generally when you wish to protect your copyright over something in the &lt;q&gt;real world&lt;/q&gt;, you place several copies of the content into envelopes, and mail them by recorded delivery to yourself, your solicitor/attorney etc. When a copyright dispute arises, you present the sealed envelope, compare the date it was sent/received to the date the &quot;stolen&quot; work was produced (it would presumably be dated after the hard copy was mailed out), open the envelope and compare the contents against the accused stolen work.

Digital productions can be modified easily, making the creation of fingerprinting algorithms a little troublesome- a texture for example, could be rotated, offset, flipped, tinted to create a texture that had a slightly different fingerprint. In most cases (except for clothing) these differences could quite easily be corrected for in the texture parameters of an object.

The basic gist of a fingerprinting process would be to say &quot;This asset is a stolen copy of that asset&quot;. Visual inspections of a wide variety of content may take time, the purpose of fingerprinting would be to add an extra step/defense in the proceedings. If an automated process identifies that the resultant fingerprints of the accused work and the original work are completely unrelated, that gives weight to the idea that a claim is fraudulent, or if the fingerprints match to within a certain degree, the claim is likely truthful.

Granted, given that the DMCA is quite possibly a big pile of convoluted mess, fingerprinting may just be another pain to deal with- but when OGP swings around, there&#039;ll be asset servers that don&#039;t reside in territories governed by such troublesome legislature.

Additionally, the fingerprinting scheme would be useful for passive identification of stolen content- given a modified viewer (this is the subject that Gwyn and I discussed in more depth).

The idea is that you&#039;d run your content through a program (likely open source) to generate certificates containing the details of the fingerprinting scheme. You&#039;d then &quot;install&quot; these certificates in your viewer of choice.

While browsing around the virtual world, the viewer would have a process in the background that runs the downloaded content through the fingerprint generator (probably not in real-time), and compares the results against your installed &quot;certificates&quot;. Your viewer could then alert you to a discovery, so that you may take appropriate action.

The fingerprinting scheme isn&#039;t only limited to copyright disputes. It could also be used as a means of identifying and implementing content upgrades- you&#039;d have pairs of &quot;certificates&quot;, one for the old content and the other for the newer, high-quality or replacement content, again with appropriate notifications so the content creator can take appropriate action.

A third option that&#039;s just popped into my head (one that Gwyn and I didn&#039;t discuss previously) is that content creators that socialise a fair bit could use the fingerprinting scheme to check of the avatars in attendance of an event were wearing any content they were wearing, allowing those avatars to be notified of any new creations that they might be interested in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since preventing copying would prove too difficult or cumbersome (as the saying goes, <q>DRM only harms those who don&#8217;t wish to circumvent it</q>), and watermarking images would probably put content creators off- due to the flaws in the end work it&#8217;d produce- the next best thing would be for content creators to be able to identify when their content has been stolen, so that the appropriate action can be taken- without the opportunity for <a href="http://www.massively.com/2008/09/11/dmca-notices-in-second-life-a-practical-example/" rel="nofollow">baseless accusations</a>. This is something I&#8217;ve spoken to Gwyn about previously; The ability to read the fingerprint of a given asset, and compare it against RL hard copies (or otherwise mimic RL procedures of copyright dispute).</p>
<p>Generally when you wish to protect your copyright over something in the <q>real world</q>, you place several copies of the content into envelopes, and mail them by recorded delivery to yourself, your solicitor/attorney etc. When a copyright dispute arises, you present the sealed envelope, compare the date it was sent/received to the date the &#8220;stolen&#8221; work was produced (it would presumably be dated after the hard copy was mailed out), open the envelope and compare the contents against the accused stolen work.</p>
<p>Digital productions can be modified easily, making the creation of fingerprinting algorithms a little troublesome- a texture for example, could be rotated, offset, flipped, tinted to create a texture that had a slightly different fingerprint. In most cases (except for clothing) these differences could quite easily be corrected for in the texture parameters of an object.</p>
<p>The basic gist of a fingerprinting process would be to say &#8220;This asset is a stolen copy of that asset&#8221;. Visual inspections of a wide variety of content may take time, the purpose of fingerprinting would be to add an extra step/defense in the proceedings. If an automated process identifies that the resultant fingerprints of the accused work and the original work are completely unrelated, that gives weight to the idea that a claim is fraudulent, or if the fingerprints match to within a certain degree, the claim is likely truthful.</p>
<p>Granted, given that the DMCA is quite possibly a big pile of convoluted mess, fingerprinting may just be another pain to deal with- but when OGP swings around, there&#8217;ll be asset servers that don&#8217;t reside in territories governed by such troublesome legislature.</p>
<p>Additionally, the fingerprinting scheme would be useful for passive identification of stolen content- given a modified viewer (this is the subject that Gwyn and I discussed in more depth).</p>
<p>The idea is that you&#8217;d run your content through a program (likely open source) to generate certificates containing the details of the fingerprinting scheme. You&#8217;d then &#8220;install&#8221; these certificates in your viewer of choice.</p>
<p>While browsing around the virtual world, the viewer would have a process in the background that runs the downloaded content through the fingerprint generator (probably not in real-time), and compares the results against your installed &#8220;certificates&#8221;. Your viewer could then alert you to a discovery, so that you may take appropriate action.</p>
<p>The fingerprinting scheme isn&#8217;t only limited to copyright disputes. It could also be used as a means of identifying and implementing content upgrades- you&#8217;d have pairs of &#8220;certificates&#8221;, one for the old content and the other for the newer, high-quality or replacement content, again with appropriate notifications so the content creator can take appropriate action.</p>
<p>A third option that&#8217;s just popped into my head (one that Gwyn and I didn&#8217;t discuss previously) is that content creators that socialise a fair bit could use the fingerprinting scheme to check of the avatars in attendance of an event were wearing any content they were wearing, allowing those avatars to be notified of any new creations that they might be interested in.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gwyneth Llewelyn</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2008/10/18/stepping-back-from-the-analogue-hole/comment-page-1/#comment-24513</link>
		<dc:creator>Gwyneth Llewelyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 15:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/?p=521#comment-24513</guid>
		<description>Indeed, Zwagoth, I believe you&#039;re right: those ideas of yours to limit texture theft is pretty much what I had in mind as a viable alternative, and... I&#039;ve even briefly talked to Blue Linden about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, Zwagoth, I believe you&#8217;re right: those ideas of yours to limit texture theft is pretty much what I had in mind as a viable alternative, and&#8230; I&#8217;ve even briefly talked to Blue Linden about it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Zwagoth Klaar</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2008/10/18/stepping-back-from-the-analogue-hole/comment-page-1/#comment-24511</link>
		<dc:creator>Zwagoth Klaar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 14:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/?p=521#comment-24511</guid>
		<description>I have no objection to content having protection, its how SL works, and always has worked. I just feel that a trusted client server relationship is not the way to go protecting that content.

While I agree that it is a problem, I do not see a feasible way of protecting something that involves you sending a copy to them. If it was more like first life, where you can show things to people without giving them copies, the idea of protection would be far more feasible in the regards of trust networks.

I have ideas for preventing or at least keeping texture theft to those with a high level technical background but I also believe that the most obvious way is to simply watermark things. It does not have to be a huge gaping image over your content, it just has to prove the point that its yours, this is where it came from. Even watermarks can be defeated, removed or simply ignored.

I never want to avoid true commerce, its what runs everything. I simply wish to point out that in its current form, those technicalities are stopping points that prevent a true system of protection. The work that I do I hold close to myself and don&#039;t want to see it stolen, but I have come to understand that with enough will, people can and will steal it and claim it as their own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no objection to content having protection, its how SL works, and always has worked. I just feel that a trusted client server relationship is not the way to go protecting that content.</p>
<p>While I agree that it is a problem, I do not see a feasible way of protecting something that involves you sending a copy to them. If it was more like first life, where you can show things to people without giving them copies, the idea of protection would be far more feasible in the regards of trust networks.</p>
<p>I have ideas for preventing or at least keeping texture theft to those with a high level technical background but I also believe that the most obvious way is to simply watermark things. It does not have to be a huge gaping image over your content, it just has to prove the point that its yours, this is where it came from. Even watermarks can be defeated, removed or simply ignored.</p>
<p>I never want to avoid true commerce, its what runs everything. I simply wish to point out that in its current form, those technicalities are stopping points that prevent a true system of protection. The work that I do I hold close to myself and don&#8217;t want to see it stolen, but I have come to understand that with enough will, people can and will steal it and claim it as their own.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
