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	<title>Comments on: Esoteric immersionism</title>
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	<description>Socio-Economical Articles about the Second Life® world</description>
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		<title>By: husnain</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2009/05/27/esoteric-immersionism/comment-page-1/#comment-26882</link>
		<dc:creator>husnain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 09:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/?p=889#comment-26882</guid>
		<description>&quot;They have great topics like this one on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.energytalkradio.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;www.energytalkradio.com&lt;/a&gt; and donate 30% to charity!  Check them out.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They have great topics like this one on <a href="http://www.energytalkradio.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.energytalkradio.com</a> and donate 30% to charity!  Check them out.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: husnain</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2009/05/27/esoteric-immersionism/comment-page-1/#comment-26502</link>
		<dc:creator>husnain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 02:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/?p=889#comment-26502</guid>
		<description>&quot;They have great topics like this one on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.energytalkradio.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;www.energytalkradio.com&lt;/a&gt; and donate 30% to charity!  Check them out.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They have great topics like this one on <a href="http://www.energytalkradio.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.energytalkradio.com</a> and donate 30% to charity!  Check them out.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Lucynda Riley</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2009/05/27/esoteric-immersionism/comment-page-1/#comment-26426</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucynda Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 19:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/?p=889#comment-26426</guid>
		<description>I remember when i first heard about second life a year ago.  I learned about it while watching a Law and Order episode where they used something like second life as an example.  I guess Linden Labs didn&#039;t want the real one used.  That led to a quick search on the internet and there it was.  Then and now I think its the coolest thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember when i first heard about second life a year ago.  I learned about it while watching a Law and Order episode where they used something like second life as an example.  I guess Linden Labs didn&#39;t want the real one used.  That led to a quick search on the internet and there it was.  Then and now I think its the coolest thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Avatara</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2009/05/27/esoteric-immersionism/comment-page-1/#comment-26392</link>
		<dc:creator>Avatara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 03:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/?p=889#comment-26392</guid>
		<description>I also liked the sound of all those &#039;As&#039;, but I specifically chose it as my SL name in reference to my comment above - Thanks Gwyn :)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Recently I made my memoires blog public - quite a feat given it is a definite act of wearing my heart on my sleeve.  SL has helped me come to terms with much of the innefable I&#039;ve experienced in life, particularly my coming to terms with what it means to me in particular.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Please feel free to have a read at &lt;a href=&quot;http://soulgate.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2008-03-31T21%253A21%253A00%252B11%253A00&amp;max-results=6&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://soulgate.blogspot.com/search?updated-max...&lt;/a&gt;, starting at the bottom (from the oldest post).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Feedback is more than welcome :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also liked the sound of all those &#39;As&#39;, but I specifically chose it as my SL name in reference to my comment above &#8211; Thanks Gwyn <img src='http://gwynethllewelyn.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Recently I made my memoires blog public &#8211; quite a feat given it is a definite act of wearing my heart on my sleeve.  SL has helped me come to terms with much of the innefable I&#39;ve experienced in life, particularly my coming to terms with what it means to me in particular.</p>
<p>Please feel free to have a read at <a href="http://soulgate.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2008-03-31T21%253A21%253A00%252B11%253A00&#038;max-results=6" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://soulgate.blogspot.com/search?updated-max.." rel="nofollow">http://soulgate.blogspot.com/search?updated-max..</a>., starting at the bottom (from the oldest post).</p>
<p>Feedback is more than welcome <img src='http://gwynethllewelyn.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: KhanneaSuntzu</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2009/05/27/esoteric-immersionism/comment-page-1/#comment-26387</link>
		<dc:creator>KhanneaSuntzu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 05:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/?p=889#comment-26387</guid>
		<description>Even though I *try* to maintain an anti-teleological stance (&quot;..no fate but the one we make for ourselves..&quot;) this way of thinking remains compelling. One of my foibles is regarding earth and transhumanism is aspects of a birth, or a germination. The earth is a seed and its darkening and shriveling just before sprouting - and this is intended to be in some cosmic cycle.  Consciously I do not want to believe in that because I think humanity faces some dire consequences if we don&#039;t rationally decide - the era where we can rely on faith *in any way* is about over, we are losing the cutesy puppy factor. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Spiritualism .. what is it? It is a sense of the supernatural, essentialism. Thats what we call &quot;ietsism&quot; in the netherlands - somethingism. Most religious people here are ietsists - they vaguely believe in some benevolent, *soothing* reality, a sort of cosmic pharmacist offering, antidepressants, tranquillizers and pain relief.  The whole spiritual metaphor consequently follows the zeitgeist in which it inhabits - in plutocratic or authoritorian eras you had to &quot;plead&#039; the higher realities, just as you had to plead a king or wealthy benefactor. In scientic/industrial time spiritualism became something of an alchemical process where you could cleverly &quot;harvest&quot; the benefits of the higher through sound science. In modern times the relationship of people with &quot;the spiritual&quot; is chillingly like a consumer walking in a convenience store, handing out his &quot;karmic credit card&quot; and taking home a number of spiritual benefits. See I miraculously found the watch I lost 3 years ago, it must work.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It will be extremely painful for a lot of people to exorcise this reliance. It is like a grieving process, where a child has to accept the fact that her parents are dead and now she is fundamentally alone and uncared for.  The new spirituality must be a recognition where we say, we did this, that and that, and that got us where we are, and we should be neither smug or proud about it, it&#039;s just a recognition of what is, and what can be. In essence we won&#039;t feel so inadequately anymore that we somehow need to transposition metaphysical authority (judgement, shame, veneration, aspiration, hope, reward, punishment, shock, awe) into a transcendant tribal authority but it comes into focus and transpositions as a sharp image on ourselves. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Mind you, this can still be a metaphysical worldview - in becoming transhuman we don&#039;t need to be disenchanted with hopes and dreams - but we become the actors instead of the reactors. Where in the old days we were mostly sick, weak and pathetic day workers standing half exhausted, traumatized and terrified by the potato fields as the gods duked it out in thundering storm clouds,  and the knights barreled across the fields jousting on armored horses - and we were spectators largely groveling before our materialistic and paternalistic betters.  In the new future we &quot;log in&quot;, take up our purple set mjolnirs and excaliburs, the ones we deserved to get after grinding endlessly in Stratholme, and incarnate as gods, albeit very minor ones.  What, you thought Thor became the Ubermensch he is without some serious grindage? &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I have often said - I simply adore religion. It is very persistent LARP.  But the time is near to recognize that jesus, mohammed, allah are all just NPCs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even though I *try* to maintain an anti-teleological stance (&#8220;..no fate but the one we make for ourselves..&#8221;) this way of thinking remains compelling. One of my foibles is regarding earth and transhumanism is aspects of a birth, or a germination. The earth is a seed and its darkening and shriveling just before sprouting &#8211; and this is intended to be in some cosmic cycle.  Consciously I do not want to believe in that because I think humanity faces some dire consequences if we don&#39;t rationally decide &#8211; the era where we can rely on faith *in any way* is about over, we are losing the cutesy puppy factor. </p>
<p>Spiritualism .. what is it? It is a sense of the supernatural, essentialism. Thats what we call &#8220;ietsism&#8221; in the netherlands &#8211; somethingism. Most religious people here are ietsists &#8211; they vaguely believe in some benevolent, *soothing* reality, a sort of cosmic pharmacist offering, antidepressants, tranquillizers and pain relief.  The whole spiritual metaphor consequently follows the zeitgeist in which it inhabits &#8211; in plutocratic or authoritorian eras you had to &#8220;plead&#39; the higher realities, just as you had to plead a king or wealthy benefactor. In scientic/industrial time spiritualism became something of an alchemical process where you could cleverly &#8220;harvest&#8221; the benefits of the higher through sound science. In modern times the relationship of people with &#8220;the spiritual&#8221; is chillingly like a consumer walking in a convenience store, handing out his &#8220;karmic credit card&#8221; and taking home a number of spiritual benefits. See I miraculously found the watch I lost 3 years ago, it must work.</p>
<p>It will be extremely painful for a lot of people to exorcise this reliance. It is like a grieving process, where a child has to accept the fact that her parents are dead and now she is fundamentally alone and uncared for.  The new spirituality must be a recognition where we say, we did this, that and that, and that got us where we are, and we should be neither smug or proud about it, it&#39;s just a recognition of what is, and what can be. In essence we won&#39;t feel so inadequately anymore that we somehow need to transposition metaphysical authority (judgement, shame, veneration, aspiration, hope, reward, punishment, shock, awe) into a transcendant tribal authority but it comes into focus and transpositions as a sharp image on ourselves. </p>
<p>Mind you, this can still be a metaphysical worldview &#8211; in becoming transhuman we don&#39;t need to be disenchanted with hopes and dreams &#8211; but we become the actors instead of the reactors. Where in the old days we were mostly sick, weak and pathetic day workers standing half exhausted, traumatized and terrified by the potato fields as the gods duked it out in thundering storm clouds,  and the knights barreled across the fields jousting on armored horses &#8211; and we were spectators largely groveling before our materialistic and paternalistic betters.  In the new future we &#8220;log in&#8221;, take up our purple set mjolnirs and excaliburs, the ones we deserved to get after grinding endlessly in Stratholme, and incarnate as gods, albeit very minor ones.  What, you thought Thor became the Ubermensch he is without some serious grindage? </p>
<p>I have often said &#8211; I simply adore religion. It is very persistent LARP.  But the time is near to recognize that jesus, mohammed, allah are all just NPCs.</p>
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		<title>By: GwynethLlewelyn</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2009/05/27/esoteric-immersionism/comment-page-1/#comment-26385</link>
		<dc:creator>GwynethLlewelyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 18:44:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/?p=889#comment-26385</guid>
		<description>What an interesting concept! I do agree that spirituality is supposed to be &lt;i&gt;existentially soothing&lt;/i&gt; and I guess I never saw this angle of transhumanism before. In fact, I have been teasing with Extie for a while about the common points between esoteric religions and transhumanism — both sides would agree that transcending humanity is the focus here, and while esoteric religions are very keen in pointing out that the means to do so is within our own selves and within our own abilities (i.e. there is no need of &quot;external agents&quot; or &quot;magic&quot;), transhumanism relies on technological advance. That&#039;s fine — esoterists would claim that the ultimate goal of transcending humanity is easier if you just rely on &lt;i&gt;mind advance&lt;/i&gt; (more precisely, changing the mindset), they&#039;re also the first to say that this path is not available to all (meaning mostly that the ability to really change your own mind is not easy and not possible for most human beings). Transhumanism is more &quot;democratic&quot; in that regard: changing one&#039;s mindset, catapulting it into post-humanism, is just a mouse-click away (so to speak).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Interesting, however, to consider that although the process may be universally available one day, it might be a &lt;i&gt;painful&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;traumatic&lt;/i&gt; process. Esoterism, on the other hand, is all about ending suffering :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What an interesting concept! I do agree that spirituality is supposed to be <i>existentially soothing</i> and I guess I never saw this angle of transhumanism before. In fact, I have been teasing with Extie for a while about the common points between esoteric religions and transhumanism — both sides would agree that transcending humanity is the focus here, and while esoteric religions are very keen in pointing out that the means to do so is within our own selves and within our own abilities (i.e. there is no need of &#8220;external agents&#8221; or &#8220;magic&#8221;), transhumanism relies on technological advance. That&#39;s fine — esoterists would claim that the ultimate goal of transcending humanity is easier if you just rely on <i>mind advance</i> (more precisely, changing the mindset), they&#39;re also the first to say that this path is not available to all (meaning mostly that the ability to really change your own mind is not easy and not possible for most human beings). Transhumanism is more &#8220;democratic&#8221; in that regard: changing one&#39;s mindset, catapulting it into post-humanism, is just a mouse-click away (so to speak).</p>
<p>Interesting, however, to consider that although the process may be universally available one day, it might be a <i>painful</i> and <i>traumatic</i> process. Esoterism, on the other hand, is all about ending suffering <img src='http://gwynethllewelyn.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: KhanneaSuntzu</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2009/05/27/esoteric-immersionism/comment-page-1/#comment-26383</link>
		<dc:creator>KhanneaSuntzu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 10:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/?p=889#comment-26383</guid>
		<description>Transhumanism is a religion that is based on /disenchantment/ with traditional spirituality. As many people I know IRL swear I am spiritual, as there are who insist I am spiritually barren - my conclusion is I have transcended spirituality and have evolved into transhumanism. Smug? Maybe! - but do bear in mind I believe most transhumanists don&#039;t have a clue how bad it will get actually transmorphing into something posthuman - It may in fact be deeply traumatic. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Spirituality is supposed to be existentially soothing. I do not thing a consistent pathway towards posthumanism will actually be very soothing. It may actually even be &#039;postextistential&#039; .  In that case - the bhudists were right all along.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Transhumanism is a religion that is based on /disenchantment/ with traditional spirituality. As many people I know IRL swear I am spiritual, as there are who insist I am spiritually barren &#8211; my conclusion is I have transcended spirituality and have evolved into transhumanism. Smug? Maybe! &#8211; but do bear in mind I believe most transhumanists don&#39;t have a clue how bad it will get actually transmorphing into something posthuman &#8211; It may in fact be deeply traumatic. </p>
<p>Spirituality is supposed to be existentially soothing. I do not thing a consistent pathway towards posthumanism will actually be very soothing. It may actually even be &#39;postextistential&#39; .  In that case &#8211; the bhudists were right all along.</p>
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		<title>By: Khannea</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2009/05/27/esoteric-immersionism/comment-page-1/#comment-26382</link>
		<dc:creator>Khannea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 10:05:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/?p=889#comment-26382</guid>
		<description>You are correct - and those who adopted it have the &quot;greener pastures gene&quot;.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Let me explain that. Why do people live near the pole circle? Which human in their right mind doesn&#039;t get up and leave when living in a hard place? Yet for some reason people do not leave a hard place, stick to it and venerate it, with vague arguments such as &quot;my parents and grandparents died here, I cant betray their legacy&quot;. &lt;br&gt;I say, thats all rationalization - in reality a large percentage of humans have a pioneer gene. As soon as they hear abut gold in them hills, they get up and leave. I even dare suggest there is an overlap between predisposition towards ADHD, anomie disorders (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/26587/anomie&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/26587...&lt;/a&gt;) and nomadism (As this study &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.slate.com/id/2193472/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.slate.com/id/2193472/&lt;/a&gt; suggests) and adoption of alternative realities. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This has contributed to the success of humanity spreading everywhere - but there is also a flip side. Sedentary humans - the kind that take great pleasure in watching Big Brother and Stars Skating in Circles) HATE the restless. Yes, I said &quot;the restless&quot; and I said &quot;HATE&quot;.  Why do citizens loathe gypsies, jews, bedoeins?  I say it is because the sedentary desire to enforce a memetic status quo. They want fundamentals to stay the same. They cannot have the underlying rules of existence to shift or evolve. As such they actively persecute the nomadic, or will go as far as kill them.   Don&#039;t tell me you haven&#039;t felt this at one time. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Second Life is not a new religion - it is the first stirrings of a fundamental change, and I would *love* to see an analysis that makes more plausible than I can make plausible, what precise qualities Second Life has that triggers the racism gene of sedentary humans?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are correct &#8211; and those who adopted it have the &#8220;greener pastures gene&#8221;.</p>
<p>Let me explain that. Why do people live near the pole circle? Which human in their right mind doesn&#39;t get up and leave when living in a hard place? Yet for some reason people do not leave a hard place, stick to it and venerate it, with vague arguments such as &#8220;my parents and grandparents died here, I cant betray their legacy&#8221;. <br />I say, thats all rationalization &#8211; in reality a large percentage of humans have a pioneer gene. As soon as they hear abut gold in them hills, they get up and leave. I even dare suggest there is an overlap between predisposition towards ADHD, anomie disorders (<a href="http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/26587/anomie" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/26587.." rel="nofollow">http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/26587..</a>.) and nomadism (As this study <a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2193472/" rel="nofollow">http://www.slate.com/id/2193472/</a> suggests) and adoption of alternative realities. </p>
<p>This has contributed to the success of humanity spreading everywhere &#8211; but there is also a flip side. Sedentary humans &#8211; the kind that take great pleasure in watching Big Brother and Stars Skating in Circles) HATE the restless. Yes, I said &#8220;the restless&#8221; and I said &#8220;HATE&#8221;.  Why do citizens loathe gypsies, jews, bedoeins?  I say it is because the sedentary desire to enforce a memetic status quo. They want fundamentals to stay the same. They cannot have the underlying rules of existence to shift or evolve. As such they actively persecute the nomadic, or will go as far as kill them.   Don&#39;t tell me you haven&#39;t felt this at one time. </p>
<p>Second Life is not a new religion &#8211; it is the first stirrings of a fundamental change, and I would *love* to see an analysis that makes more plausible than I can make plausible, what precise qualities Second Life has that triggers the racism gene of sedentary humans?</p>
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		<title>By: Putting Second Life in Perspective « Khannea – Suntzu's WebBlog</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2009/05/27/esoteric-immersionism/comment-page-1/#comment-26380</link>
		<dc:creator>Putting Second Life in Perspective « Khannea – Suntzu's WebBlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/?p=889#comment-26380</guid>
		<description>[...] Second Life, especially about why so many people that tried it hate it with a vengeance.  As Gwyn pointed out perfectly the chance someone adopts SL as a regular medium of self-expression is a bit of a mystical [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Second Life, especially about why so many people that tried it hate it with a vengeance.  As Gwyn pointed out perfectly the chance someone adopts SL as a regular medium of self-expression is a bit of a mystical [...]</p>
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		<title>By: GwynethLlewelyn</title>
		<link>http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2009/05/27/esoteric-immersionism/comment-page-1/#comment-26378</link>
		<dc:creator>GwynethLlewelyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwynethllewelyn.net/?p=889#comment-26378</guid>
		<description>A very good point, Avatara! I used to do some classes about religion — not tied to an particular one — and the comparison of the duality between your RL self (what Extropia names &quot;primary&quot;) and your avatar (&quot;secondary&quot;) is clearly comparable to the notion of &quot;the avatar as a manifestation of a deity&quot;, which exists on our material plane of existence and elsewhere. Indeed, the name &quot;avatar&quot; was well chosen :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very good point, Avatara! I used to do some classes about religion — not tied to an particular one — and the comparison of the duality between your RL self (what Extropia names &#8220;primary&#8221;) and your avatar (&#8220;secondary&#8221;) is clearly comparable to the notion of &#8220;the avatar as a manifestation of a deity&#8221;, which exists on our material plane of existence and elsewhere. Indeed, the name &#8220;avatar&#8221; was well chosen <img src='http://gwynethllewelyn.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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